entropic magick

really, this thread could be called chaos magick, but i want to distance it from the iot definition. from what i understand, they use "chaos" to emphasize the unrestricted use of other paradigms and belief systems. so i'll stick with the term "entropic magick" to describe the thoughts i've had.

one of my favorite passtimes is trying to take things we already know or suspect from the physical sciences and apply that knowledge to more esoteric principles. in doing this, i keep coming back to the idea of entropy in a more metaphysical sense.

just as a brief review: entropy is the degradation of a closed system from order towards chaos. a closed system, in this sense, is just a self-contained environment where energy can neither be created or destroyed. it can mean other things in other situations (heat transfer, the measure of uncertainty, the amount of energy incapable of performing work, etc.), but this is sort of the gist of the term.

anytime a system gains entropy by becoming more disorganized, there typically is a net release of energy. in the realm of chemistry, you have exothermic reactions which release energy as heat (like the cigarette i just smoked - burning reduces it to a more chaotic, loosely-bound state and in the process free energy is released as heat); nuclear physics deals with particle reactions, which release various forms of high energy radiation (fission, for example); and so on and so forth, there are a lot of examples.

so my thought is this: is there some equivalent release of energy when cultural, religious, or societal systems experience an increase in entropy (degrade to a more chaotic state)? could we, for example, look at the recent riots in the middle east or the dissolution of the soviet union into disorganized republics, and "siphon" some sort of social or memetic energy from those chaotic acts?

in more general terms: if we can detect and capture the release of energy when a physical system degrades to a more chaotic state, can we do the same when a sociocultural system degrades to a more chaotic state?

my google-fu is pretty strong, but i haven't really been able to turn up much about this so far. so i'm asking you guys for your thoughts and opinions on this. does it seem credible? if so, what form would the energy released by a terrorist attack, for example, take? how would one go about capturing that energy?

Despite peoples' attraction to the thermodynamic definition, entropy as a measure of uncertainty is the most universally applicable definition the word has. It's not so much about degradation as much as it's about how much is possible, but not identified.

As for taking advantage of entropy in societal structures, consider this. Uncertainty gets people riled up. Think of this 'riled up' as the release of energy, or the flame from your lighter. Now, people generally desire stability, and people generally see uncertainty as unstable(hence, why they're riled up.) Take advantage of this. Target a social structure that is experiencing an increase in entropy(uncertainty) and introduce your message, or agenda, as a solution to that uncertainty. If done properly, people will adhere to your message, thus giving it 'power' or 'energy' or whatever word you want to use.

So basically: entropy=people upset=fire. Your message=people feeling stable=you harnessing that fire. People accepting your message=you controlling that tamed fire=you've used the fire to light your cigarette and now you get that sweet nicotine.


Does that make sense? Did I explain my view clearly? It's kinda late and I've had a couple.


Also, from what I remember, the 'Chaos' in Chaos Magic is generally considered to come from Chaos Theory. The whole Butterfly Effect thing. People have, of course, added onto that and mixed it around. You could say that its meaning has become uncertain, or experienced an increase in entropy.

question wrote:It's not so much about degradation as much as it's about how much is possible, but not identified.

fair enough, i can work with that. though i've most frequently encountered that as an expression of disorder; or tendency towards disorder, or possibility of disorder.

question wrote:As for taking advantage of entropy in societal structures, consider this. Uncertainty gets people riled up. Think of this 'riled up' as the release of energy, or the flame from your lighter. Now, people generally desire stability, and people generally see uncertainty as unstable(hence, why they're riled up.) Take advantage of this. Target a social structure that is experiencing an increase in entropy(uncertainty) and introduce your message, or agenda, as a solution to that uncertainty. If done properly, people will adhere to your message, thus giving it 'power' or 'energy' or whatever word you want to use.

i like this, particularly because it would go a long way towards explaining the enthusiasm for the national socialist movement in germany. just to clarify: you're approaching this as a "right time, right place, right message" sort of deal, correct?

question wrote:Does that make sense? Did I explain my view clearly? It's kinda late and I've had a couple.

yes and yes.

question wrote:You could say that its meaning has become uncertain, or experienced an increase in entropy.

hah, i like that.

tospiteyourface wrote: just to clarify: you're approaching this as a "right time, right place, right message" sort of deal, correct?

Yes, exactly.